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105497-attunement-killed-end-game-original-post-here
Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4 Content ---- ---- ---- ---- I'm kinda glad to hear that. I never really liked min/maxing. Having to farm the perfect gear was always annoying in past games. Being able to average things out instead of min/maxing is actually rather appealing. I like the focus on difficulty and skill. Its your own skill in reacting to the fight that makes it challenging. I know some people say the game takes no skill. Not standing in red boxes is not a skill. I say the skill is in your reactions. Like a drag racer honing their reaction time to the red/yellow/green lights. Everyone knows to stay out of the red boxes. Its how quickly you get out of it that matters and where you go. Challenges are appealing. Victory is so much sweeter. | |} ---- Chua agree, but seems others do not and consider it nothing more then time-gate. Chua care not, each has own opinion. | |} ---- ---- Chua not think the mechanics are hard, hardest part running dungeons: Proper communication | |} ---- ---- ---- They are going to need some serious PR and advertising to get people back. Fixing the problem is the first step, getting the word out to the people that left is the second. There will be people that no matter what is fixed, will never come back. They will always be angry that there were issues that needed fixing. I can't really fault them for that, not everyone has the disposable income to be patient with a game when there are other choices. | |} ---- we're only on drop 2...whats in drop 4? | |} ---- Thats a pretty bold statement to make after you've run all the dungeons over and over. They are absolutely hard and become easier when you've done them over and over again. At this point, most people have done the content so many times that they have it memorized. That's why you can get gold stl in a group finder pug. Eventually SSM will become the same.. everyone will just know it back and forth and you will find group finder groups that can do it without voice comms.. but till then.. the game is not accessible to casuals trying to get attuned | |} ---- Not sure. Has the protostar dungeon dropped yet? | |} ---- ---- ---- Chua partialy agree. But statement only true, if raids have similar mechanics as dungeon. When raids use different mechanics or criteria, then attunement false sense of attuning. Chua need more science to find out. | |} ---- Adventures = 2 hard rating Dungeons = 5 hard rating Dungeon silvers = 8 hard rating Raid 20 man = 9.5 hard rating Raid 40 man = 10 hard rating | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- We run total 2 runs on stormtalon for silver We run total 2 runs on Kel for silver We run total 4 runs on Skullcano ( if we only know the last boss was bugged) XD We run total 6 runs on Swordmaiden ( the first run was like 140 min to complete, and we needet a bit of luck with with the optionals) Yes we are a good group, but wer are not the best DD, Tank or Healer(me), but we just stun what we can stun ( bosses, trash etc...) and so we win. We had Ingi Tank 2 stuns Warri 3 stuns Esper DD 3 Stuns SS DD 2 Stuns and Esper Healer 3 Stuns (stuns =IA) So saying they are that hard is not correct, just a bit of communication is needet. | |} ---- I would say Raid 20 ist like 7,5 atleast for the first half. | |} ---- ---- First I quoted nailed it. Dungeons NEED to be hard. There needs to be difficult content out there that isn't a raid. Why? Because if there isn't people would whizz through it getting their upgrades instantly. Is that cool? Personally I don't think so. To the guys that are saying "DUNGEONS ARE HARD" then my first question is are you trying to get them silvered so you can raid? If so, run them with your guild. I sincerely doubt you are pugging a raid. If you are not trying to get silver, then enjoy the ride, learn something and make friends. That's what an MMO is about. Anyway, yeah. Just wanted to say that. To the guy quoting the hard rating, that's about fair because if you want to pug difficult dungeons you should be with an organized group. If you just want to complete the content then have at it. | |} ---- ---- ---- Of the few raiding guilds left in this game actually doing anything, all of them require you to already be attuned. Think about this before you ;post again, as it is really really hard for people to get attuned in a pug. I personally have literally stopped caring about doing anything outside of adventures after killing the first 2 bosses in the 20 man raid, then having most of my RL friends quit cause the games bugs weren't being fixed, and there was no relaxing yet rewarding content to do. So I basically spend my time farming and vendoring things for mass amount of platinum (Already got a year and 3 months worth of credd) or leveling an alt. There is nothing left for me to do in the game that is fun cause PvP is horrible with how gear is done in that section of the game, and pugging for something to do is out of the question. | |} ---- But is partially problem of guilds too then. Maybe realize requiring attunement is bad, and open up for more people and help them attune. is what Chua does with guild. Builds better bond between members too. | |} ---- It is partially the guilds problem, but it is also carbines problem cause when people get into the actual end game and realize "Holy crap, why do I got to do so much grinding just to set foot into a 20 man raid?" they get tired and leave. The entire Elder gem thing is -horrible-. 2/3 end game zones from level 44+ are -all purple-. A lot of the gear is uninspired looking. PvP has been a joke since 3 weeks after release (lolpaid carries), and got even worse last patch. Even MORE SO for new PvPers. I love the game, but I don't actually participate in any real activities in it anymore. Lucky for me I got so much free game time in it that I can play this and WoD beta as much as I want. | |} ---- This. Raiding guilds are now Dungeon farming guilds due to attunement, instead of spending their time in raids. | |} ---- ---- Hardcore raiding guilds don't care about people, they care about progression, Casual guilds do but they usually don't have large bench of people to rotate them properly or possibility to kick insufficient players from raid. And its even worse in WS because losing one raider means you need to find and attune another one. This is terribly implemented timesink right here. | |} ---- ---- ---- it's the same for me | |} ---- ---- yes sir! I can play 2-3 hours in the evening and I would like to do something. | |} ---- 2-3hours? Can run 5 adventures in that time, if practised and understood mechanics + paths | |} ---- This is pretty much where i'm at as well atm. | |} ---- The game designer of wildstar will tell you they only focus on hardcore players. And they wanna do a super hardcore game which is their dream. They don't mind about your thinking although they are listening to you. That's all. | |} ---- ---- ---- I have to agree with this. If there was an in game voice chat system say just between people you are grouped with this would make attunement for casual players and PUG's fesiable, though wouldn't be much good for those without mic's. | |} ---- ---- It's not a question of can or can't. I doubt this game has anything most people haven't seen. It's knowing that people simply won't do it. They will see it and leave. That was my fear. My fear is/was that it will/would chase people off. Everyone isn't as amazing as you. With that knowledge you should have expected this outcome and fought alongside the Nays. :D Having said that there is a post titled: "Anyone notice that Raid Attunement is a 12-Step Program?" in the Raids forum where CARBINE WAS TOLD THAT THIS THING WOULD BE THEIR UNDOING BY SANE PEOPLE! "You can either run around parroting hardcore or we can fix it" -Balf June 3rd 2014 7:07 PM est, I think the moon was full, It was oddly chilly for a summer night. | |} ---- Chua think listening in is enough. Not have to speak, but voicing instructions faster mid fight then typing them. | |} ---- i have like 2-3 hours too. 1-2 evenings a week. if my girl lets me. and i made 3/4 so far with just using the time i got on. guild made appointment, groups were set. just get on and play full force for 3 hours. last thing to do is ssm. you people dont need free access to all content or free loot. you need organization. a better groupfinder would be nice. like the more times you completed the dungeon, the hiigher you get ranked in group finder. so if you do lfd and you do it a lot, you automatically get people who also push hard on something. practice makes people better but people are scared of practice so they wont get better | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- pretty much this. wildstar is the dark souls / demon souls of mmos. every new mmo is so easy and wow like that they dont compete, they just fill time till next wow content patch. wildstar isnt such a filler game and i believe its right in the spot where it wants to be. remember the devspeak about raids? "Raids in Wildstar are what we always thought raids should be." lunatics, impossible odds, nightmareish scenario Its pretty much "no elves" like ;) ah no elves.... i remember something..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxFKDzW0qdg | |} ---- ---- Well, like I said, attunement does have areas it can be adjusted without turning Wildstar into a wet noodle, and they aren't bad adjustments. Nobody likes elder gem cap. | |} ---- source? | |} ---- No, it hasn't at all. They are not changing the current attunement. New attumements will be created, as you might expect, within the scope of new content. | |} ---- ---- The current Population numbers. The number of Raiders posting I quit posts. You can try to dispute my claims but as you people are slowly learning Balf is always right eheheheheehehhe Off to work :P | |} ---- It's over dude. Time to wake up to reality. Sanity won in the end. | |} ---- I thought they just admitted the current attunement failed and 'future' attunements would be less, masochistic in nature? P.S. Don't leave me Balf, i'm not ready. :( | |} ---- Nothing is changing. The end. | |} ---- i guess you have proper sources for 1. population numbers and 2. the amount of raiders posting something is high enough to even value. i would guess no. so pls troll somewhere else | |} ---- Don't accuse people of trolling when you can't win. It's childish. I have eyes. I do not need a numbers sheet from a corporation to tell me either of these things. You don't either. You can see these things. | |} ---- Shame. This game has such great potential. Too bad stiff-necks and hard-heads will doom it as yet another "could have been great but ..." game. No offense, but at the rate we're going, it won't be long until there is one almost-active PVE server, one barely-active PVP server and poor little Evindra, Land of Casual Scum. Man, won't you guys feel awesome about yourselves, knowing that if you'd only stepped off your high-horses and shared your gaming space with people who aren't as good as you are, that there would actually be an economy, other players and, you know, folks to admire how cool your meaningless-in-a-vacuum gear is. | |} ---- I have 8 more minutes lol | |} ---- "Flood? What Flood?! The water is only up to our.... *gurgle gurgle gurgle gurgle*" | |} ---- ---- The attunement should have nothing to do with any of that... if it is, it's completely on the player, not the game. Attunement other than rep can literally be done in one day, more practically over the course of a week with your guild. Easy-peasy. And this has nothing to do with how "good" a player is... but again, if a player cannot handle the content in the attunement process, they cannot handle the raids for sure. So letting them in there without proper training and practice would make their experience even worse. | |} ---- Which is 6 more then you usually need. :wub: | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Freedom, Virtue, and I don't remember there being a PvP server. I really don't like that comparison, honestly. :( But yeah, there are those whose self-admiration of their own 'achievements' is paramount to everything, especially other gamers. I believe Carbine is better than that, we'll see the proof in the pudding in the next set of drops. | |} ---- Yep. Honestly, people must be blind to not see what is happening. Either that, or they're so wrapped up in their own over-inflated sense of self-importance that they don't care. I'm a guildmaster. My guild is doing "pretty good" in the grand scheme of things ... but when I have almost forty players who haven't logged in over a month, and twenty more at the three week mark, and twenty MORE at the two-week mark. And I "friend" almost everyone I meet. Add their accounts. Of the three dozen people on my friends list, maybe a fifth of them log on regularly. Hell, of the ten people I brought with me, only four of *them* still play - and these are real-world friends who played for two weeks, saw what they were up against, and smooth-ass quit. No, I can't lay the blame solely on the vast majority of potential players. *Something* is wrong. Very wrong. It's very easy to try and point fingers, but I won't. I will just say that, of my friends at least, none of them were new to MMO's. They all knew what to expect - but the journey just isn't working for a lot of folks. | |} ---- The people who were hardcore 10 years ago have different schedules now. They like to think they can do all of this, but in reality they cannot. Then, younger players are not interested (or able to be entertained by) the slower pace and long term commitment of an MMO. These are both generalizations, but I feel probably pretty accurate for the most part. There is nothing wrong with the game itself. It's exactly as advertised. And because of that the audience will always be smaller. | |} ---- ^ MIrrors my experience (except on Oceanic not RP server + not guild master, Officer of guild, and i shower more then twice a month) | |} ---- No, I agree with all of that. I guess my real question is, what level of "smaller population" is going to make people happy? Folks aren't going to play without their friends. I can say, with all honesty, that if my wife and last three real-world friends leave, I'll have very little reason to stick it out. I'd probably just give the guild to Rocio and Max and vanish in the night. But look, if "old school" players don't have the time anymore ... and "new school" players don't have the patience, where, exactly, is the client-base going to come from? Today, this week, this month, there might be enough folks for various servers to field people for content - but what about two or three months from now? What then? Everyone who can get attuned will be - and any new players will be shit-outta-luck, because the older players won't set foot back in the mud. Yeah, that's going to make finding a group super-easier, right? Again, it's the hard-headed "Nothing is going to change, the game is fine" mentality that is getting us to where we are. If "everything is fine" then why the hell are people leaving in DROVES?! I have never, in all my years of playing MMOs, seen a content drop that actually caused the player-base to DWINDLE! Have you? I mean, outside of the Galaxies and the NGE, have you *ever* heard of an "all new, super-exciting content patch" actually cause people to LEAVE??! | |} ---- ---- There are those who think this is a feature, not a bug. They go and point to EVE and shout 'hardcore!' as if the differences in markets between an interstellar sandbox and a raiding theme park do not exist. Or there's no difference between a small private company like CCP and a larger publicly-traded corp like NCSoft. I found out everything I needed to know about what NCSoft thinks of small niche games nearly two years ago. | |} ---- ---- Those people are terrible human beings and I'll be laughing at them when there are only the ten of them left playing. Even then, they will claim a "moral victory" by helping destroy a great game, rather than share it with damn filthy casual scum. Then we can watch NCSoft as Nexus follows City of Heroes into the crapper. YAY! NICHE GAME! | |} ---- Or they can't as a fresh 50...since it's not retroactive. This is another issue I dislike about attunement, because I would love to have people jump right into adventures and dungeons, but unless they time it, then that person could get a gold in one cycle and struggle later after they purchase it to get silver in a said dungeon/adventure. With that said...I'm fine with an attunement process, but the context around the attunement needs improving...this means raids and non-raid content. In it's current state as more guilds and in turn people move out of the "mass" attunement phase it leaves stragglers to fend for themselves as guilds slap on "attunement required" to their entry which is bound to happen regardless of what game you're playing that has attunements. This essentially then lessens the pool of potential raiders and new blood becomes harder to get, which long term is painful for growth when the tedium of non-raid content is not capable of sustaining a larger portion of the playerbase gated out. Edited August 4, 2014 by Typrop | |} ---- ---- ---- "You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain." I'm still frankly shocked at all the posts about people saying they followed the game in development, knew what to expect from Devspeaks and videos and interviews, and still are surprised by attunements and dungeon difficulty. In Wildstar's defense, none of what's happening should come as a surprise to anyone. My biggest beef with the hardcore scene in WoW circa 2004-2005 was the bait & switch players were put through. You have this lovely, expansive world that takes a few months to level through, and you're slowly goaded into 5-man grouping with elite areas and instanced dungeons, and they're there from levels 12-59... and then out of nowhere, FORTY MAN RAID-OR-DIE, GET KEYS, GET ATTUNED, and the culture shock was immense, having to step in line with a guild and get 'employed' or be second-class trash forever. Wildstar has a lot of great grouping curves, with the difficulties between shiphands, adventures and dungeons; open world bosses at every level, with a built-in high score screen for who did what afterwards; and optional challenges everywhere with gear rewards for solo players. Solo story dungeons with each patch so far. And while WoW's raiding scene was a very new, drastic step for Blizzard(because they for some reason hired the shitheads who RUINED EQ as forum crybabies by demanding raid-or-die design and then quitting the game for having all content on farm! as endgame designers; Tigole & Furor are the Devil), Carbine has been very upfront about the entire attunement and raid structure far ahead of launch. The MMO playerbase has finally come to grips with their ugly truth. They got LFR in WoW because that's what the vast majority actually need. They don't want to admit it, but it's true. They knew what attunement was going to be like, and they tuned out the fact that elite guilds were done with it and raiding on week two of release. They said to themselves and the beta forums "I love the hardcore attitude, I love that dungeons are hard!" and are now mad that dungeons are hard, and keeping them from raiding. You're right, you're not rushing from boss to boss under a timer in raids, so why should you have to in Veterans? Let's ignore the fact that it's two months in and you're supposedly end-game minded & not attuned; if you're still stuck on attunement in an environment where you can buy a run through silver(not even a "perfect" gold!), it's a skill issue, either with the players around you, or yourself. Lowering that bar and removing timers will obviously let more players into raiding, but they may not be very good. This is going to impact your raid group quality in general. If the bar to entry is continuously lowered, the player pool is going to get muddier and muddier. Where you draw the line between "this is too elite, shutdown imminent, Vanguard 2.0" and "LFR casual pandering loot-hallway" is a tough discussion for the community as a whole. Who are you willing to exclude, and at what cost? | |} ---- ---- Agreed with most of that, but I am a proponent of replacing timers to judge medals with overall damage taken. I think it's a better metric for group success. | |} ---- ---- My point, exactly. I didn't pay at lot of attention to the "ghost town" and "my server is dead" posts. I wanted to laugh and lay the blame at the feet of impatient players who couldn't be bothered to wait in a queue - or hard-ass guild leaders who refused to relocate after *GASP* a whole TWO DAYS!!!!!! But as these weeks have turned to months, it's become more obvious that's just not the case. I really started playing attention late week before last. Between Friday and Sunday, we picked up like 10 new guildies. They were ALL transfers from other servers (either transfers or outright re-rolls). Where did all these people come from? Every other NA server - including the PVP ones. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all about new guildies and I love them all - but damn, why did they leave to come to Evindra, Land of Casual Scum? Because: 1. Their Guilds folded after less than a month. 2. The servers are empty and no other guilds are recruiting 3. All the good guilds on their server also left or quit Over and over again, that's what I heard - and that's when I stopped looking at the PLAYERS and starting looking at the DEVELOPERS. The whole "Have you SEEN Warplots" is another massive sore-spot for me. Warplots were the ONLY REASON I bought into this game. I'm not a raider. I'm not an Arena junkie. I like huge PVP team battles with goals and things to do and lots of others people to fight with and against. Where the hell are all these people? Gone. Before they ever set foot in a Warplot. One of the biggest selling point of the games and NO ONE IS PLAYING IT. Seriously, I'm not a doom-and-gloomer, but I'm not blind and I'm done trying to kid myself into thinking it's all the players fault. | |} ---- An excellent point. There are still people who need to do their first attunement, and others doing alts, so I think the overlap is a happy accident in design as far as getting people to keep doing content; once enough people have account-bound keys, people will be even less-willing to do attunement steps, publicly or in a guild. I like that idea too. Might be skewed by shield absorbtion or tanking hybrids though. Actually Wildstar has a lot to do, players just don't feel rewarded or an incentive to do what's here already. Which is largely an ongoing issue with medal ranking in dungeons and the tieing/untieing of epics to an already sloppy dungeon gear reward system. | |} ---- It might be, I'm simply thinking it might be a better metric for judging if DPS are being dumbasses. The medal damage overcount should account for likely tank damage (maybe lop the biggest damage taker off the list before averaging? I'm just trying to come up with better ideas) but the whole point is to make sure that people are judged by how many telegraphs they eat and mobs they strip from the tank. | |} ---- I assume your Exile ? I asked in general chat on my alt getting to thayd to see pop, and most people claimed to be re rolls from other servers and dominion. And with that.. there was alot of people in the starter zone... | |} ---- ---- ---- This is giving Carbine feedback. | |} ---- Madda doesn't think so. Posting on the official forums why you think the game is failing, only to be greeted by an automated response isn't feedback. Contacting Carbine directly is a good way of giving feedback. If forum posting was feedback though, Madda would be a pretty good supervisor. | |} ---- Well twitter can only hold so many characters >_> | |} ---- Proto laugh that Chua soon play alone. Proto laugh even more that Chua get to type to himself and roleplay a hermit. | |} ---- Let Madda tell you something. Only Madda gets to talk like that to Olivar. Madda bet you're the kind of biggun that likes to harvest a node until it has 1 resource left and then leaves. | |} ---- You can't argue with a straight face that the general forums aren't a good place for feedback. Developers have made a post in response to players at least weekly, and not just to the people who post everyday; Last week some music dev I never knew existed thanked a bunch of people who barely post for their positive feedback on specific zone tracks. This isn't necessarily a worst case scenario. There's a blurry line between raking in maximum subscribers for pure business, and exclusionary design for a "semi-public, semi-private" niche title aimed at a specific demographic that plays in a tight, small community. The suits obviously want the former, but some devs want only a specific type of player. Some want all players worldwide, it could be anything inbetween. | |} ---- People just like to argue. The forums are most people's best options for expressing feedback atm. But when people express feedback, "Quit bitching! Go tell Carbine. This is MY forum!" | |} ---- I do that all the time. Then go into Stealth and hide and wait for angry people to come waste their time! Good fun! | |} ---- ---- Oh, but Madda can. Why don't you link Madda to a few of them and we can see if those are really devs. Not exactly. General Discussion isn't Feedback and Support. If that was the case, this game would be totally different. You're a monster. | |} ---- ---- Hey, even some of us "White Knights" have seen the writing on the wall. It's pretty much the "Speaks in Third Person" crowd who's hanging on to the "everything is fine until Carbine says so" mentality. I mean, I love those guys and gals, but they are just a *wee bit* unable to see anything past their furry eyebrows sometimes. | |} ---- ---- ---- I assume you're expecting me to link community managers rather than actual devs? riposte~! Jeff Kurtenacker talking about music in-game on the 27th of July J-Tal answering feedback about shitty rune slots on the 29th Producer Virtue chimes in on bugs and QA during last weeks patch on the 31st, with a targetted follow-up about UI Time Travel apologizes for Silver medal bugs on August 1st | |} ---- Never. Each thread of QQ is like a fine wine. Each with its own complaints and posters within. You leave them as they age for a few hours and what you have is comedy. Madda finds it hilarious that if a Madda chooses to have fun on the forums by his/her own terms that is not harmful, that Madda is blindly called names by people who don't like it. But Madda wouldn't expect anything else from a dirty, bad MONSTER. Oh hey, those actually don't look like bots / mindless one liner posts. Point for you. Gen Discussion is still a horrible place for feedback, but you has point. | |} ---- ---- It's a Brian Griffin apology, but I'm sure it's the best I'm gonna get. I'll take it! | |} ---- Since that crowd went wild and have been barging into every thread to bark "Everything is fine. The problems are either figments of your imagination or were caused by you. Stop trolling." I started putting each of them on ignore and soon discovered that more than half of the posts are now hidden. What does it say about WildStar that its most ardent defenders spend this much time on the forum instead of playing the game? | |} ---- It says we have lots of spare time at work. Most players are in the game, playing and having fun... only the complainers come to the forums. | |} ---- Madda is no researcher, but Madda thinks this statement is overblown. | |} ---- ---- Who says its a mistake? WildStar was designed for and marketed to the hardcore audience. TESO was not. Also, maybe you're not supposed to grind it out, but do it over time? Once again this is a player problem. Not a game problem. | |} ---- ---- If we see a larger drop-off than what's happened already, there won't even be a 5% left. :lol: | |} ---- I didn't call anyone a name. I said I love you guys and gals. But for serious, y'all do get a little over-the-top in y'all's defense of the nearly-indefensible. Mad props for trying to keep it positive, though. ;) | |} ---- ---- Many raid bosses are easier than silver dungeons IMO. | |} ---- Only some though. Madda has admitted many times that Carbine has made some pretty odd decisions Madda doesn't agree with. But for the most part, Madda only white knights if a QQ thread pops up explaining how something is killing Wildstar or the such with little to no proof. Those are claim people are white knighting are usually the ones who've been outwitted in their own topics x3 Also, How dare you call us "Speaks in Third Person". How would you like it if Madda called you "That Guy Who Speaks Correctly"? It hurts, doesn't it? | |} ---- | |} ---- I don't think there's anything wrong with optimism and trying to keep your chin up when times are bad. And times are definitely not the best for this game right now. I try to be civil/optimistic in the posts I make but I think Carbine needs to see the "Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin" on the wall before it's too late. There are some things in this game that are just outright unacceptable. They're getting there step by step but certain things need a complete 180 on development ideology (anything involving 40man content is an awful idea in the game's current incarnation, for starters) I'm just gonna RP Barong on the forums and it's going to be a mixture of keyboard-smashing and caps-lock because I have a hard time imagining a Draken using a keyboard. I'm sure that will be entertaining for everyone involved. | |} ---- You know, I'd actually love to see this. | |} ---- But you would ignore him then. | |} ---- ---- ---- Oh, they don't bother me with that at all. I think it's cute and kind of endearing. O' curse, I was "Ghajah de Troll Rogue" on de WoW forums fah de bettah part o' six'n'a'haf yeahs. So, I know how it go when yah try'n be in voice alla de dang time, mon. I know'd dem fellah ovah dere for a long, long time, bruddah an' somma dem nevah knew I wasn' from de islands. I-n-I even use de voice inna vent channels. Alla dem yeahs, an' I nevah broke character, not even once. Be glad Tex is a fairly normal human and I didn't pick Chua or Lopp as my forum persona. :lol: | |} ---- You must not be paying attention... | |} ---- I think Wildstar was made with the idea that there are no hardcore raiding guilds in WoW anymore because raiding in WoW is not hardcore. Which is a matter of perception, but fair enough. Wildstar was built on the idea that WoW lost something in its transition which must be replaced. Everyone on WoW said that was true, everyone else said it was true, it was taken as a matter of fact. WoW had gotten easier and more casual over the years and that was a bad thing. I don't think people knew what they were complaining about. I love Wildstar for EXACTLY that reason, that it's brutally difficult and requires a different level of concentration. I don't think everyone that complained about WoW being too easy knew what they were in for, though. One of those things that's easier to say than prove. As it stands, even Carbine knew they weren't a "WoW-killer" because they're essentially targeting different audiences now. Wildstar is attempting to pick up a lot of people who actually did, without rose colored glasses, miss older MMORPGs. And barring a few issues we have with the loot RNG and the way content is gated (the elder gems are REALLY obviously a new-school idea, that capped JP and VP nonsense), we're largely getting what we wanted. Most of us have petty gripes, but very few of the people remaining are the kind of people who actually mind the difficulty. Look at the current crop of complaints. Server populations make it hard to form raids, and there's nothing bruising to do when you're at cap. Watch how fast people get shot down for even suggesting this game be a little less difficult. | |} ---- None of the Wildstar raids are more brutal than heroic versions of current raids in WoW. The BUGS and people managing skills are what is brutal. 40 man raiding alone is a giant flop. People who say "WoW has no hardcore raiding" clearly haven't participated in any of it. People confuse 'casual' with 'more access of information available' and "Content on demand" when it comes to WoW. | |} ---- Just the opposite... WIldStar's raids and even some dungeon encounter are typical more complex than a WoW Heroic raider can handle. | |} ---- Not at all. It is silly that you even think that. | |} ---- It is slightly difficult to take a legitimate conversation about game balance/changes/complaints/etc. seriously when the person posting is actually roleplaying their character discussing meta-game issues on an internet forum. "Chua not understand why silly human have complaint about PVP balance, when Chua have perfectly good time making enemy EXPLODEEEEEEE!!!" Like seriously, its not helpful. | |} ---- ---- I'm sorry, but I raided heroic raids in WoW, and SoO is more difficult than normal raids in WoW, but I'll stand by that point firmly. We cleared my last heroic Garrosh with a ragtag group where myself (on an Arms Warrior) and the main tank (a Blood DK) were responsible for half the total interrupts across the fight. And we won. You'd NEVER get away with the equivalent of that in a Wildstar raid at level. | |} ---- True, but those that do that are just trying to play off Olivar (who stole that from Madda, but you didn't hear that through Madda.) rather poorly. Madda's only seen a handful of people who do that as well. The funny part is it's not really roleplaying as it is talking like Chua. One could also argue you'd get the same message from any other person, just in a normal way of speaking. | |} ---- Actually, you do get away with that in Wildstar. Heroic Garrosh also wasn't even the most challenging content released in MoP and that entire raid is as challenging as GA. It is silly to say that "Heroic WoW raiders can't clear any content" when the ONLY people clearing content in this game are heroic WoW raiders. | |} ---- ---- Uh, you don't get the point at all do you? Try following the entire conversation. | |} ---- As someone who has a degree in dead languages I understand that standards for communication are essentially made up and agreed upon in very, very, loose terms by consensus. Grammatical rules don't exist in some vacuum where we all opt into them and get a little "ping" noise when we violate them, but there are just a few things that enhance clarity in a conversation. I will admit that Olivar's posts typically make me cringe because I find something cringeworthy about the premise of the roleplay/meta-discussion thing, but there are actually times when clarity is lost because this is being used as a significant post-frame. What I mean is: If you have the ability to state something succinctly, clearly, and in a manner that will get your meaning, tone, etc. across the internet (notorious for making the more subtle aspects of communication difficult) you should use that ability. What actually happens when someone decides to post in Chua-speak, for example, is that the majority of people on the forums (a) don't take the post seriously (not the poster's fault, but let's be real), ( b ) Miss something because they are too busy focusing on what is intentionally a distinct/abnormal manner of speaking (again, not the poster's fault-but lets be real), or ( c ) actually have trouble with clarity because they are not familiar with the style or care to examine it. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying it makes me and many others do additional work to take posts seriously or understand them in meaningful ways. So yes its going to attract a little derision or the occasional Picard facepalm. Note: In no way is this meant to offend folks, especially those who are more roleplay-oriented. I want you and everyone else to be able to have cake/eat it also and part of that is respecting whatever folks want to do with their Wildstar experience. | |} ---- You have me confused with someone else. I said people are coming here because they thought they'd get more challenge than WoW, and I more than stand by the point that they are. Not everyone actually wanted more challenging content, though. People are washing out on silver medal attunement, reportedly. A lot of people who've said they are Heroic WoW raiders (and they've in no uncertain terms stated they are) can't even do the Wildstar version of a heroic dungeon. The difficulty has definitely been turned up in this game. A lot of people who played WoW for a decade (like myself), appreciate the change. I'm one of those heroic WoW raiders that can clear content, I've in no uncertain terms stated I played that game for over a decade. But I came here to get my ass kicked, and Wildstar's doing its levelheaded best. I did not feel like this raiding heroic in WoW. And, let's face it, a lot of people said they wanted harder PVE content, but definitely did not mean it. | |} ---- Ahahahahahahahaha. No. | |} ---- ---- Honestly, I think the whole point is that we've got a lot of people wailing and gnashing teeth on the forums already. A guy who's been positive and entertaining since he got here, speaking in Chua speak, is so far down the list of people I'd rather not talk to it's not even funny. The fact that he gets called out for a jokingly used syntax when I generally spend my days parsing frantic hyperbole for some kind of cogent criticism continues to baffle me. He hasn't done anything but made the place a little less drab and lifeless as far as I'm concerned. I'd be very disappointed if he suddenly stopped and had to become like the faceless vitriolic masses. | |} ---- This is it. This is the problem. They're so used to believing what they were doing is hard, that they think that translates to another game and path to success. Not so in WildStar. | |} ---- That is exactly what happens to me and several other users. If yours is broken, get the shut up | |} ----